Comments on: The Powerlessness of Israel http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/ Another Fine Edition of Me Sat, 15 Aug 2009 11:30:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Chicken Yoghurt » The Blog Digest digested: Chapter 3 http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-9350 Chicken Yoghurt » The Blog Digest digested: Chapter 3 Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:10:23 +0000 http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/#comment-9350 [...] July 2006 – Smokewriting: The Powerlessness of Israel It’s a fact of political blogging that if you’re going to make any kind of point about the Israel-Palestine issue, you should be prepared to get flak from both sides of the argument, even if you write an even-handed piece. Comment threads degenerate quickly into insults, hyperbole and expletives. The pro-Israeli camp will call you anti-Semitic. The pro-Palestine camp will call you a supporter of tyranny. Eventually someone will mention the Nazis, at which point you have to invoke Godwin’s Law (‘As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one’) and call the whole thing off. [...] [...] July 2006 – Smokewriting: The Powerlessness of Israel It’s a fact of political blogging that if you’re going to make any kind of point about the Israel-Palestine issue, you should be prepared to get flak from both sides of the argument, even if you write an even-handed piece. Comment threads degenerate quickly into insults, hyperbole and expletives. The pro-Israeli camp will call you anti-Semitic. The pro-Palestine camp will call you a supporter of tyranny. Eventually someone will mention the Nazis, at which point you have to invoke Godwin’s Law (‘As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one’) and call the whole thing off. [...]

]]> By: Tamer Hosny http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-2250 Tamer Hosny Wed, 20 Dec 2006 15:04:14 +0000 http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/#comment-2250 Interesting post. I came across this blog by accident, but it was a good accident. I have now bookmarked your blog for future use. Best wishes. Tamer Hosny.... Interesting post. I came across this blog by accident, but it was a good accident. I have now bookmarked your blog for future use. Best wishes. Tamer Hosny….

]]> By: smokewriting.co.uk » Blog Archive » War Failures http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-71 smokewriting.co.uk » Blog Archive » War Failures Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:06:30 +0000 http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/#comment-71 [...] The obsession with omnipotence, as I wrote previously, is a particularly damaging and self-disabling aspect of the deterrence doctrine that is woven deeply into Israeli politics. Despite the insights, however, Cordesley can’t get by without his Orientalism: Israel, however, was dealing with both a non-state and a state actor that were not Western and which operated with different values and goals. [...] [...] The obsession with omnipotence, as I wrote previously, is a particularly damaging and self-disabling aspect of the deterrence doctrine that is woven deeply into Israeli politics. Despite the insights, however, Cordesley can’t get by without his Orientalism: Israel, however, was dealing with both a non-state and a state actor that were not Western and which operated with different values and goals. [...]

]]> By: Robert Sharp » Blog Archive » Middle-East wars and the Edinburgh Festival http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-30 Robert Sharp » Blog Archive » Middle-East wars and the Edinburgh Festival Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:54:33 +0000 http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/#comment-30 [...] And just like the Greek stories, now the children are being dragged into it. Some Israeli kids have been signing the missiles being shot into Lebanon. After drawing their pictures (I rather doubt they are writing messages of death to other kids as Sabbah suggests), the Israel children probably don’t see the effects of their missiles. We do, however, because we are the TV audience. And we watch as the cycle repeats itself. Another blood feud is created, ready to be concluded in some Tel Aviv pizza parlour in 2012. [...] [...] And just like the Greek stories, now the children are being dragged into it. Some Israeli kids have been signing the missiles being shot into Lebanon. After drawing their pictures (I rather doubt they are writing messages of death to other kids as Sabbah suggests), the Israel children probably don’t see the effects of their missiles. We do, however, because we are the TV audience. And we watch as the cycle repeats itself. Another blood feud is created, ready to be concluded in some Tel Aviv pizza parlour in 2012. [...]

]]> By: Rochenko http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-27 Rochenko Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:58:48 +0000 http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/#comment-27 Have you actually been <a href=\"http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-07-23-mideast-fighting_x.htm\" rel=\"nofollow\" rel="nofollow">following </a> <a href=\"http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/grim-proof-ordinary-folk-are-dying-in-the-killing-zone/2006/07/19/1153166454900.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" rel="nofollow">current </a> <a href=\"http://www.guardian.co.uk/syria/story/0,,1824750,00.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" rel="nofollow">events</a> at all? If the Israelis \'care\' about who their bombs are going to kill, it must be a very particular sort of \'caring\'. Like if I was to say \'whatever I do, I respect you as a human being\', just before I ripped your fingernails out with a pair of pliers. Still, I notice from <a href=\"http://strange_stuff.blogspot.com/2006/07/lebanon.html\" rel=\"nofollow\" rel="nofollow">your blog</a> that apparently the Yom Kippur war happened in 1977, and that the 1982 invasion of Lebanon was all about Israeli self-defence against terrorism, so I shouldn\'t be expecting too much, I suppose. Have you actually been following current events at all? If the Israelis \’care\’ about who their bombs are going to kill, it must be a very particular sort of \’caring\’. Like if I was to say \’whatever I do, I respect you as a human being\’, just before I ripped your fingernails out with a pair of pliers.

Still, I notice from your blog that apparently the Yom Kippur war happened in 1977, and that the 1982 invasion of Lebanon was all about Israeli self-defence against terrorism, so I shouldn\’t be expecting too much, I suppose.

]]> By: chris http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-19 chris Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:02:23 +0000 http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/#comment-19 Israeli soldiers ride those buses in uniform. When an Islamist not-so-smart bomb gets on board do they look for the distinctive green and not detonate until they see it? No. That is a big difference, the Israelis try to attack military targets, but their enemies don't care who gets killed. Israeli soldiers ride those buses in uniform. When an Islamist not-so-smart bomb gets on board do they look for the distinctive green and not detonate until they see it? No. That is a big difference, the Israelis try to attack military targets, but their enemies don’t care who gets killed.

]]> By: Tim Worstall http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-18 Tim Worstall Sun, 23 Jul 2006 13:59:52 +0000 http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/#comment-18 <strong>Britblog Roundup # 75...</strong> Still in our shrunken form for the summer, here is the Britblog Roundup, your collection of the posts that you think the rest of us should see. If you’d like to make nominations for next week’s, simply send the URL... Britblog Roundup # 75…

Still in our shrunken form for the summer, here is the Britblog Roundup, your collection of the posts that you think the rest of us should see. If you’d like to make nominations for next week’s, simply send the URL…

]]> By: Friendly Fire http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-15 Friendly Fire Fri, 21 Jul 2006 21:42:12 +0000 http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/#comment-15 Great post Great post

]]> By: Malcolm Murdoch http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-12 Malcolm Murdoch Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:35:46 +0000 http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/#comment-12 To what extent is this manipulated by the leaders though? The majority (if not all) democracies go to war based on a perceived threat. This threat may, or may not be real. When we attacked Iraq, our leaders were (pretending?) keeping us safe by protecting us from a nasty man with big hidden weapons. We are now very sceptical about that claim. Is it the same situation in Israel? There are some people who know what they are doing but are manipulating the politics of fear in order to deliver on their short sighted goals. Overall it seems to be that there is no acceptable long term solution for Israel. They seem to be chasing a solution where there are competent governments in neighbouring countries protecting them. Doesn't make sense. To what extent is this manipulated by the leaders though? The majority (if not all) democracies go to war based on a perceived threat. This threat may, or may not be real.

When we attacked Iraq, our leaders were (pretending?) keeping us safe by protecting us from a nasty man with big hidden weapons. We are now very sceptical about that claim.

Is it the same situation in Israel? There are some people who know what they are doing but are manipulating the politics of fear in order to deliver on their short sighted goals.

Overall it seems to be that there is no acceptable long term solution for Israel. They seem to be chasing a solution where there are competent governments in neighbouring countries protecting them.
Doesn’t make sense.

]]> By: Niels http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-11 Niels Thu, 20 Jul 2006 12:54:16 +0000 http://www.smokewriting.co.uk/2006/07/19/the-powerlessness-of-israel/#comment-11 If enough blood is shed something as cold-blooded as compromise just isn't on the table any more. The fight for the ideal turns into a fight to preserve the ideal as viable. Anything to maintain the fantasy of an eventual success, to refuse to accept the desire as unrequited. Doesn't matter if it is a repeat of a flawed strategy. It might work this time, and then Israel will be proved right, and all the death and destruction will have been worth something. Worse, if Israel hesitated, paused, considered a compromise, who knows how far its confidence would shatter. Bad poetry would be the least of it. Maybe there is no rational strategy, because the underlying assumptions are flawed. Scary. So one more heave, in memory of all that have gone before you... If enough blood is shed something as cold-blooded as compromise just isn’t on the table any more. The fight for the ideal turns into a fight to preserve the ideal as viable. Anything to maintain the fantasy of an eventual success, to refuse to accept the desire as unrequited.
Doesn’t matter if it is a repeat of a flawed strategy. It might work this time, and then Israel will be proved right, and all the death and destruction will have been worth something.

Worse, if Israel hesitated, paused, considered a compromise, who knows how far its confidence would shatter. Bad poetry would be the least of it. Maybe there is no rational strategy, because the underlying assumptions are flawed. Scary.

So one more heave, in memory of all that have gone before you…

]]>